Refusing to Condemn the Vandalism of a Synagogue

What a barking-mad thread.  Yesterday, someone claiming to be Cllr. Terry Kelly (Labour, Ward Four of Paisley North West) appeared on my blog, taking objection to my thoughts on his declaring that Israelis/Jews should be forced “to act as they once did; when their treatment under the Nazis won them the respect and affection of most of the world”.

As visitations at other blogs by individuals claiming to be Kelly have later been disputed, and for Kelly to have lodged Police complaints, I was highly skeptical to begin with. I left a remark on his blog asking for confirmation, which was provided.

Buoyed by this, I wrote a new missive, including the straight-forward question to Kelly if he found the daubing of Hezbollah symbols outside Garnethill synagogue in August 2006 (reporting in the Glasgow Evening Times, and discussed at Engage Online).

A reasonable question, but one which the individual posting as Terry Kelly has steadfastly refused to answer. I would hope they would easily see the spite and threat in daubing a synagogue with Nazi symbols, but answering either in the affirmative or negative would put Kelly in a quandary.

… if he said it was acceptable, it would unarguably be a straight-forward antisemitic act. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of Israeli policy, a Jewish place of worship would have been attacked, and Jews-as-Jews associated with Israeli misdeeds;

… if he said it was unacceptable (which it is), it would be an implicit acceptance of Hezbollah symbols being unacceptable. This may meet with disagreement from luminaries attached to the Scottish PSC, such as the antisemitic John Wight who, at the time of the vandalism, was addressing spectators in Edinburgh and declaring all to be Hezbollah.

So, what should a follower-not-a-leader do? Say yes or no? Or, take the Fifth?

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142 Responses to “Refusing to Condemn the Vandalism of a Synagogue”

  1. efrafandays Says:

    Someone posting as Patricia appears to be suggesting there is more than one individual posting as Kelly.

    Similar allegations have been made in the past and, in light of the Police complaint Kelly has undoubtedly made, I am wondering if I should proceed.

    Looking back over the several dozen remarks left by “Terry Kelly”, I do wonder if I see differences in spelling and syntax throughout. I certainly detect different temperaments.

    As an ongoing Police investigation may be in danger of being compromised, I would appreciate further thoughts from whoever is posting as “Terry Kelly”… if I am unconvinced, I may feel compelled to pass the details to the Police.

  2. Patricia Says:

    Well I can’t be sure but it does seem to me like two people were posting under “Terry Kelly” for the reasons of syntax you mention. It is very unusual to see Mr Kelly stick with a debate for so long and I note his previous position of not commenting on other blogs. I further note that “Terry Kelly” ceased all further comment when I raised the posssibility he was again being impersonated on your previous thread.

    It does seem very suspicious that a serving councillor would fail to condemn an attack on a synagogue. Reagardless of the politics graffiti is a criminal act. Indeed Mr Kelly’s daughter Rayleen has to her credit spoken out on the problem of graffiti many times in the past(1) and she has also condemned anti-trident protestors for breaking the law despite having some sympathy with their stated aim to get rid of trident. (2) Of course it is perfectly possible that Mr Kelly and his daughter disagree on breaking the law as a means of protest. Still adding in the obvious ‘hate crime’ aspect of this synagogue attack it does seem unbelievable that a condemnation would not be forthcoming if these remarks really did come from Mr Kelly.

    Given the involvement of the police it may be wise to verify with him directly who actually made these comments and confirm his own blog hasn’t been hacked by the imposter.

    (1) http://rayleenkelly.blogspot.com/2007/04/councillor-rayleen-kelly.html

    (2) http://rayleenkelly.blogspot.com/2007/01/snp-faslane.html

    • efrafandays Says:

      Those are very pertinent questions, Patricia. I will make clear that I am aware that it’s only our ‘gut’ feelings thus far; so I am still minded to let Terry offer an explanation. If he has been spoofed again by someone who has now gained access to his blog, this potentially constitutes a criminal act of harassment considering previous incidents.

      I would support Terry in his efforts to identify this individual.

      Separately, I see on his blog what is undoubtedly from himself:

      http://councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com/2010/01/65-years-ago-yesterday-wasnt-that-time.html

      Given his stated feeling of betrayal by Israel for actions in Gaza, and his professed support for Hamas as a democratically elected government of Gaza, I wonder if he:

      [1] Is aware that Hamas only received a majority vote in the 2006 regional authority elections across all the Palestinian Authority, and not executive control in Gaza or anywhere else;

      [2] Supports Fat’h;

      [3] Approves of Hamas’ armed actions;

      [4] Can square support for Hamas – as he says Gazans offer – with his accusations of Israel’s delivering collective punishment against the Gazan population;

      [6] Can explain how he, a councillor native to Paisley, feels he’s been betrayed by a country many thousands of miles away.

  3. Stuart Says:

    It’s a bloomin’ strange world at times.

    I personally think that you have handled this with caution and wisdom and your questions to him seem appropriate indeed and should be answered.

  4. Yoni Says:

    What “Israeli misdeeds”?

  5. Terry Kelly Says:

    This is Cllr. Kelly again honestly it’s me; I have explained my remarks about the Jews and the second world war; if you choose to continue twisting them there is not much I can do about it.
    You ought to look again at your first para. about the Synagogue; get Ana to help you; she is a stickler for clarity.
    Your para’s 4 & 5 are quite shameless, it is not a straight forward question at all, and it is a lie of omission to say that I refused to answer, I said I would not comment on the question because it is a squalid attempt by you to use the Synagogue and the Jews who worship there.
    You have cack handedly blundered into blatantly using this attack on a Synagogue to damage me, the truth is that you couldn’t care less who you use; Jews, Synagogues or anyone else as I said you are beneath contempt.
    Scottish PSC, ? the antisemitic John Wight ? what are you on about ? who are these people.

  6. Terry Kelly Says:

    Stuart Says:
    23/02/2010 at 05:26 | Reply

    You think the question asked of me about the Synagogue is a reasonable one? I simply don’t believe you.

  7. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. efrafandays Says: 22/02/2010 at 23:58 | Reply
    As far as I am aware all the posts sent to this blog are from me; since I came back on tonight I have found it confusing as we now seem to have 3 different versions on the blog which refer to me.
    I don’t understand why anyone who is not impersonating me or indeed impersonating anyone else would wish to withdraw.

  8. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 23/02/2010 at 00:39 | Reply
    You see a syntax differences? – pompous B******t , “it’s unusual for me to stick with a debate for so long” more garbage; I have been involved in debates on my own blog which ran for months. “I note his previous position of not commenting on other blogs” essentially true but, I’ve never found myself suddenly being traduced as an anti Semite and a Jew hater by hundreds of Zionist thugs and liars who were impersonating me. “I further note that “Terry Kelly” ceased all further comment when I raised the posssibility he was again being impersonated on your previous thread” I haven’t got a clue what you are on about with this, still; one truth and three lies is not bad for you lot.
    “It does seem very suspicious that a serving councillor would fail to condemn an attack on a synagogue”
    Absolutely and if you show a wee bit more diligence or is it honesty? you can read what I have said about the question and the low life who asked it.
    If you live long enough you hear most things; now I have a Zionist preaching about upholding the law.

  9. Terry Kelly Says:

    o efrafandays Says: 23/02/2010 at 02:09 | Reply
    (1) there are some who will say and do anything to deny that Hamas won fair elections; mostly people like you.
    (2) Yes; I would like them to settle their differences and face the occupier as one.
    (3) Yes. They are under occupation and under siege; what would you be doing if you were a Palestinian living in Gaza? I like to think if it was me that I would have the courage to fight Israel for every inch of occupied/stolen land; The little blood soaked Zionist thug Ben Gurion agreed with me.
    (4) There are very few who don’t accept that Israel is guilty of collective punishment and your numbers are dwindling.
    (6) No (5) ! Is this some kind of Zionist code? Should I watch out for murderers with tennis rackets? I have explained many times why I feel betrayed by Israel; they are destroying the good will enjoyed by the Jews because of the Holocaust and treating Palestinians in a barbaric way; showing the same disregard for human life and dignity as was shown to them and their ancestors.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      XX Terry Kelly Says:
      23/02/2010 at 20:55
      (1) there are some who will say and do anything to deny that Hamas won fair elections; XX

      That means nothing. So did Hitler.

      But then he would be one of your heroes I guess.

      • efrafandays Says:

        Terry has said that Jews should return to life as it was under Hitler in order to regain love and respect, but I don’t think he was *thanking* Hitler.

  10. Patricia Says:

    I do see differences in syntax and given that you’d recently been impersonated I thought it wise to be cautious. Are you now saying we should just take anyone claiming to be you at face value?

    The author of this blog has explicitly stated that he does NOT think you are an antisemite so if your presence here is to disprove that allegation you’re in the wrong place. Are you intending to visit the blogs that do say you’re an antisemite?

    Whether the person who asked the question or not is a lowlife is irrelevant to the point being discussed. I honestly can’t see why you would have difficulty answering a simple question like do you condemn attacks on synagogues. I have read what you have said and I’m none the wiser.

    You seem to be arguing that the actions of the Israeli government reflect badly on all Jews. If you believe this, then you must also believe that it is acceptable to hold all Jews responsible for Israeli actions and deal with them accordingly. That is a deeply sinister and dangerous viewpoint. The BNP have a similar attitude towards Muslims. Are you seriously asserting that this is an acceptable way to think?

    I’m also surprised to hear that you think all Hamas need to do to be worthy of your support is win an election. The SNP won the vote at Holyrood yet you don’t support them. The Tories look like winning the general election later this year -will you also be supporting them. If not, why support the virulently antisemitic Hamas? It is one thing to respect the outcome of a democratic election but quite another to support the winning party.

  11. efrafandays Says:

    I don’t have time to devote attention necessary to the above remarks. I will simply ask Terry, again, if he thinks the vandalism of Garnethill synagogue was acceptable. Yes or no.

    Plus, if he is asserting that some of the remarks in the previous thread were from an impostor. If he believes they were, I wonder if he’d be prepared to furnish me with the name of the Police station he reported his spoofing to, and any incident number.

    Also:

  12. Patricia Says:

    All I shall say is that there is something very fishy indeed about all this.
    Why on earth would someone seeking to deny they are antisemitic say they support Hamas of all organisations?

    Does Terry Kelly really think statements like the following are acceptable?

    “Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying”

    -from Article 32 of the Hamas Charter

    Does he believe that extra-judicial killings, arbitary arrest and torture as practised by Hamas are worthy of his support?

    If so he will no doubt enjoy reading this Human Rights Watch report on Hamas http://www.hrw.org/node/82366

    Does he believe Holocaust denial as endorsed by Hamas is acceptable?

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=1946

    If he’s genuinely saying he does and is not just having a rather poor taste joke at our expense, then I can’t imagine he’d be at all upset by an attack on a synagogue.

  13. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 23/02/2010 at 21:39 | Reply

    “Are you now saying we should just take anyone claiming to be you at face value”?

    I really don’t care anymore it’s in the hands of the police; if someone writes something imitating me I would raise it on this blog; has that happened?

    The author of this blog has written about me in the most vicious and dishonest way and depicted me as anti Jewish; I no longer intend to let him or anyone else get away with it. You people might be used to those you target fearing you but that is not me.

    The Synagogue question could only be asked by a low life liar and anyone who pretends not to understand why is the same.

    “You seem to be arguing that the actions of the Israeli government reflect badly on all Jews”

    that’s another vile distortion can you not at least try to be a bit more subtle.

    You would like to discuss Hamas wouldn’t you; you would like to take the discussion away from Israel’s crimes wouldn’t you. Well you are not getting away with it; Israel is in breach of international law and is carrying out war crimes, Hamas is the fig leaf which they desperately cover themselves with.

    I have a perfectly clear view of the Palestine Israel conflict; don’t waste your time and mine trying to sing the same song for the millionth time, you are criminals.

  14. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. efrafandays Says: 23/02/2010 at 23:28 | Reply

    “I will simply ask Terry, again, if he thinks the vandalism of Garnethill synagogue was acceptable. Yes or no”

    I had been warned about people like you but; until I disturbed the stone you were under I had no idea just how low you could sink.

    “Plus, if he is asserting that some of the remarks in the previous thread were from an impostor. If he believes they were”

    I only picked up on your sordid site a couple of days ago and all the posts since then with my name are genuine.

  15. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 24/02/2010 at 00:12 | Reply

    Why on earth would someone seeking to deny they are antisemitic say they support Hamas of all organisations?

    This view of Hamas does not square with the organisation who won democratic elections; strictly observed a cease fire when it was agreed with Israel (which Israel deliberately broke) an organisation who have offered talks with Israel based on a two state settlement, something not quite right here with your reasoning until that is we remember that you are a Zionist lying thug. You forgot the bit about Hamas eating babies.

    “If so he will no doubt enjoy reading this Human Rights Watch report on Hamas”

    Have you read the reports on Israel from various human rights groups? You will no doubt be familiar with the word Chutzpah!

  16. Patricia Says:

    The author of this blog has explicitly stated that he does not think you are antisemitic why do you keep insisting he has said something he hasn’t?

    Why should I wish to to take the discussion away from Israel – I have no problem at all condemning human rights abuses by Israel or any other country. I am not partial in this at all and support a two state solution.

    It is you, by your own admission who supports the murder of innocent Palestinians provided the crime is committed by Hamas.

    It is you who is refusing to condemn attacks on synagogues.

    It is you who is seeking to change the subject by making abusive, unfounded and defamatory comments about the people here.

    As you are either unable or unwilling to take part in a debate that you chose to involve yourself in by coming here, I think people are entitled to draw their own conclusions about where you stand.

  17. efrafandays Says:

    I still don’t have time to concentrate on this discussion… I’ll leave Patricia to defend the fort, and will return today or tomorrow.

  18. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 24/02/2010 at 15:52 | Reply

    “The author of this blog has explicitly stated that he does not think you are antisemitic why do you keep insisting he has said something he hasn’t” ?

    He doesn’t say anti Semitic because he does not need to he has portrayed me as a hater of Jews and I am not prepared to let him or you or any of the others in your squalid crew away with it.

    “I have no problem at all condemning human rights abuses by Israel or any other country”

    Of course you don’t you just forgot to mention it didn’t you.

    “It is you, by your own admission who supports the murder of innocent Palestinians provided the crime is committed by Hamas”

    I will not dignify this with a reply for the same reason that I won’t dignify the Synagogue question with a reply; the statement and question are contemptible, as are both of you.

    “It is you who is refusing to condemn attacks on synagogues”

    Utterly contemptible; you have no shame.

    “It is you who is seeking to change the subject by making abusive, unfounded and defamatory comments about the people here”

    I have no hesitation in abusing lying squalid Zionist thugs like you lot. I have every right to fight back.

    “As you are either unable or unwilling to take part in a debate that you chose to involve yourself in by coming here, I think people are entitled to draw their own conclusions about where you stand”

    What this means is that you know you can’t win this; I did not choose to come here you people made it impossible for me not to defend myself; I would be delighted for people to draw their own conclusions.

  19. Patricia Says:

    “I have no hesitation in abusing lying squalid Zionist thugs like you lot. I have every right to fight back.”

    No one is saying you don’t have a right to defend yourself. We’re just amazed that you’ve chosen to do so by making yourself sound so aggressive, irrational and evasive. I can only assume your aim is to bore your opponent into submission rather than put your case. You must be an absolute hoot in council meetings!

    I don’t know why you’re getting on your high horse with me. You said you support Hamas. Hamas murder and torture innocent Palestinian people, they make frequent antisemitic statements and have spoken out in support of holocaust denial. Yet whereas I’m quite happy to talk about Israeli human rights abuses, you become shifty and evasive when confronted with the actions of Hamas.

    It would appear that you couldn’t care less about the suffering of Palestinian people, unless it provides you with a basis to attack Israel. How else to you explain your total indifference to victims of Hamas brutality?

  20. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 24/02/2010 at 17:37 | Reply

    “No one is saying you don’t have a right to defend yourself. We’re just amazed that you’ve chosen to do so by making yourself sound so aggressive, irrational and evasive”

    Agressive? Correct and justifiably so. Irrational? Absolutely not that’s a lie. Evasive? No; another lie. One truth and two lies you are improving.

    “You must be an absolute hoot in council meetings”

    Council meetings; flawed as they are would not tolerate someone like you for a second, your arrogance is such that you think you can twist anything to suit you cause and tell any lie no matter how obvious.

    Your determination to keep on the case of Hamas is exactly what I would expect; you think you can defend the indefensible by repeating a big lie over and over again; tell it to someone who doesn’t know what is going on you are getting nowhere with me; The State of Israel is guilty of war crimes, racism and their very own version of Apartheid. No amount of obfuscation can hide that.

  21. Patricia Says:

    Well I’m quite sure I could get through a council meeting without behaving in a manner that get’s me in bother with the Standards Committee -apparently some councillors can struggle with that one.

    Councillor you misunderstand me. I’m not defending anything. I’m condemning human rights abuses carried out by Hamas. You support Hamas, why are you so reluctant to defend them?

    Is it perhaps because having visited Auschwitz, you can’t bring yourself to defend your support for the holocaust deniers Hamas? Is there a conscience in there after all?

  22. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 24/02/2010 at 19:07 | Reply

    Ah yes the Standards Commission; this is what passes for argument with you people; as I’ve said you are contemptible.

    “Councillor you misunderstand me”

    This is your problem I don’t misunderstand you at all I understand you only too well; I’ve been fighting against you all my life; everywhere you raise your ugly presence I will be there.

    “You support Hamas, why are you so reluctant to defend them”

    I don’t need to defend them all I have to do is tell people to look at Israel and the lying Zionist thugs who support it.

    “Is there a conscience in there after all”?

    What would someone like you know of conscience?

  23. Patricia Says:

    Councillor,
    I think I would have noticed if you’d been fighting with me my whole life. I’m also unclear what my physical appearance has to do with anything or indeed how you would have any idea what I look like. Rather a puerile remark from you there.

    If you feel no need to defend Hamas why do you get so upset at people criticising them? Trying to deflect criticism of them by pointing fingers at Israel is pathetic. The fact is you can’t defend them without conceding that you’re quite happy to tolerate antisemitism provided it comes from someone who shares your hatred for Israel.

    Let’s face you’re not much of a friend of Palestine, are you? On the one hand you assert that a boycott of Israel is the best way to help Palestine -ignoring the opposition of Palestinian trade unions to this stance. Yet on the other we learn that outwith the supermarket you don’t even bother to check whether or not the goods you buy or the medicines you use are Israeli. It’s all a pose with you. You want to look like you care but you don’t.

    More remarkable still we learn that you haven’t even heard of the SPSC or one of it’s prominent members. Anyone living in Scotland with an interest in pro-Palestinian campaigning would surely be aware of this group and their campaign.

    Really what have you ever done for Palestine beyond a half hearted boycott that you don’t even maintain and a few ill argued blog posts? The truth is, this is all about you and your vanity – nothing else. It’s telling that the only time you leave the confines of your blog is when you feel you’ve been attacked. In all the debates that take place online about Israel and Palestine -you’ve never once felt moved to contribute. Yet here you are -all guns blazing because people have refused to be cowed by your bullying and ask you a few questions. How vain! How self-obsessed!

    That’s why you’ve got nothing to contribute to the debate beyond defamatory statements and personal abuse. You ask what someone like me would know about a conscience. I’m intrigued by what you mean by someone like me. You know nothing about me. You have asserted that I am a thug and a criminal, yet I have never been convicted of anything or involved in violence of any sort. What exactly do you mean by people like me? If there’s something you want to say, spit it out.

    Incidentially when you reported your imposter to the police, did you let on that you support an organisation regarded as a terrorist organisation by both the UK government and the EU? If you haven’t, you should. It might help them narrow down the suspects to people who are disgusted by antisemitic terrorists.

  24. tevya Says:

    Efrafandays, nice discussion you’ve got going here! Hope you’re well.

    Terry, would you be prepared to enter into a discussion on these issues with, perhaps, a little less hostility? I’m genuinely curious as to your defence.

  25. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 24/02/2010 at 21:30 | Reply

    “I think I would have noticed if you’d been fighting with me my whole life. I’m also unclear what my physical appearance has to do with anything”

    Are you really that dumb or is this just more lies its beginning to look compulsive; are your usual readers under fives?

    “If you feel no need to defend Hamas why do you get so upset at people criticising them”?

    I feel no need to defend Hamas or get upset at people who criticise them, particularly people like you. I simply look at who the aggressors are, who the thieves are, who the war criminals are etc. etc. and that is Israel. I do not condone anti Semitism; never have and never will; that’s why we are having this argument because of the lies being told by you and your site.

    “I’m intrigued by what you mean by someone like me”

    I mean someone who supports war crimes, someone who will lie and cheat without compunction to damage someone; I mean a low life twisted apologist for those who deliberately kill innocent children. .

    “You know nothing about me”

    Oh yes I do, I know enough about you to figure out what filth you are capable of.

  26. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. tevya Says: 24/02/2010 at 23:46 | Reply
    I am hostile to this blog and those who support it for perfectly good reasons, they lied about me and branded me a Jew hater; they support Israel and its crimes; what kind of language would you like me to use?

  27. Patricia Says:

    Oh dear. You still don’t get it do you? I have no problem at all condemning Israeli human rights abuses. The only person in this discussion refusing to condemn human rights abuses is you because they are carried out by Hamas, who you, by your own admission support. Still nice try at deflecting attention from your own hypocrisy which become more painfully obvious as you to continue to write.

    You can be as abusive as you like towards me. I find it quite funny. However it doesn’t detract from the fact that you are a total hypocrite on this issue. You refuse to condemn antisemitism if it’s directed against Israel -you’ve had ample opportunity to do so and still you refuse. Worse than that you even claim to support the people responsible for it. Silence is collusion.

    You constantly proclaim your deep commitment to the Palestinian cause but hypocritically break the boycott you repatedly claim to believe in. In fact, I note you’ve been actively promoting a product of Israel in your comments here. If one clicks on your name I’m taken to Google. Permit me a cheeky chuckle here -Google is powered by an Israeli alogorythm. Did you get mixed up with the boycott and the buycott? How embarrassing for you!

    You mentioned earlier that you shop at Asda -yet more hypocrisy! The only big food retailer in the UK who refuse to stock settlement produce is the Cooperative/Somerfield.Yet despite having four Co op foodstores within three miles of your home you choose to shop at Walmart owned Asda! That’s the same Walmart who pay their third world sweatshop workers starvation wages and refuse to recognise unions. This is basic stuff councillor and if you had a shred of commitment to your cause you’d know it. It’s not just your commitment to the boycott that looks half hearted it’s your socialism too.

    http://www.bigcampaign.org/index.php?page=who_sells_Israeli_goods

    What a poseur you are! That’s why you hurl abuse because it’s all you’ve got. You’ve no arguments or facts to support your kneejerk stance. You’ve no history of action or self sacrifice in pursuit of your principles to point to. I’m sure whatever ‘filth’ you imagine I’m capable of pales in comparison to your monumental hypocrisy.

  28. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 25/02/2010 at 16:17 | Reply
    2. “You refuse to condemn antisemitism if it’s directed against Israel”
    No I do not; another lie; do you think that if you make this crass accusation often enough I will accept it?

    I note you’ve been actively promoting a product of Israel in your comments here; How embarrassing for you!

    Your debating methods are actually far more embarrassing to you; this could have come from a 10 year old.
    The rest of this is risible and not worth a response.

  29. Patricia Says:

    Oh my aching sides! I’ve just noted from the good councillors profile that he uses a Sky email address. Sky owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News International are of course one of many companies the Boycott Israel campaign tells us we should not be doing business with. Yet there goes Terry with his Sky package. I imagine he thinks no cause is worth missing out on the football for.

    I’m beginning to wonder if the Kelly household budget forms an integral part of the Israeli economy such is the councillors apparent love of Israeli goods. Go on admit it councillor your lifelong boycott amounts to three tomatoes and a date doesn’t it?

    I doubt even the BUYcott folk have bought as much from Israel between them as out Terry http://www.buycottisrael.ca/form.php,

    Utterly priceless!

  30. Patricia Says:

    Terry,
    You’re just in the huff because you’ve been boasting about boycotting Israel all those time and I’ve exposed you as being less than truthful on that score. Honestly you’re like on of those folk who’s always banging on about what they do for charity but in reality does bugger all.

    With regard to Hamas, the dogs in the street know they’re antisemites. Until you said you supported them it would never have occurred to me that you would have any truck with such a vile organisation. Why is you don’t condemn their antisemitism or indeed their human rights abuses?

    My arguments might shame a ten year old but I can’t help but observe that you’re too thick to rebut them. I’m not even trying that hard either -this really is like shooting fish in a barrel only easier.

    Incidentially will you be paying tribute to brave Palestinian Mosab Hasan Yousef for his bravery in saving countless lives despite the grave personal risk he faced in doing so? http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1151941.html

  31. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 25/02/2010 at 19:24 | Reply

    You have been writing to me for some time always tortuously long repetitive letters not one of which has surprised me in any way you are exactly as I described at the outset.

    You are fanatical Zionist supporters of Israel; that means you are liars and thugs who will say and do anything to damage anyone whom you decide is anti Israel. Truth; honesty; decency does not come in to the equation. I will not be stopping my attacks on Israel and I will continue to support the Palestinians until they get justice.

    You can write as much filth and lies as you wish; your audience is getting smaller and smaller as decent people see you for what you are; defenders of the indefensible. People like you are wrongly identified by some as Jews/Israelis as if they were the same thing when nothing could be further from the truth; there is a massive difference between many many Jews and the State of Israel and more and more people are seeing that; even in Israel itself where brave Jews are more and more speaking out against Zionist war crimes; you will lose because everything that is decent demands that you do.

  32. Patricia Says:

    Councillor,
    Well if hoping for a peaceful two state end to this conflict makes me a fanatical zionist -so be it.

    What I wonder does pretending to support a boycott of Israel when you openly break it make you? You say you support the Palestinians, yet you turn a blind eye to Hamas abusing their human rights and break the boycott you pretend to believe in because you can’t undergo the minor inconvenience of giving up your Sky package. At the rate you’re going the IDF will end up with sponsored by Councillor Terry Kelly emblazoned on their uniforms.

    I don’t want you to stop writing about Israel. I wholeheartedly encourage you to continue -with enemies like you Israel has no need of friends. I will certainly be doing everything I can to encourage people far and wide to read your remarkable blog. You’re a posturing buffoon who’s latched on to a trendy cause and has done nothing but exploit it to draw attention to himself.

    Nothing I’ve said here is untrue. You do support Hamas. Hamas are antsemitic http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/may/15/hamasandantisemitism. Out of interest do you support the Hamas virtue campaign which has done so much to make life difficult for women
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/hamas-virtue-campaign-aim_n_246046.html ?

    You have broken the boycott on at least one occasion that we know about and you do it again and again every time that Sky direct debit leaves your bank account. You put the evidence out there. All I’ve done is present it to you and ask a few questions. No lies.

    Still if you’re so confident that decent people support your ideas, why not put it to the test. At the next council election put out a leaflet telling your constituents that you support Hamas. Tell them that you cannot bring yourself to condemn an attack on a synagogue and that you’ve been a wee bit economic with the truth as regards your commitment to the Israel boycott. I’m sure it would go down a storm.

    I realise that’s probably a bit too much like putting yourself on the line for your beliefs but why not give it a go and see what happens? That is, if you have the guts.

  33. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    I assume that is really you?

    If that’s the case and you feel that you’ve been hard done by, and you are genuinely against antisemitism then there is a simple solution.

    Please just write a small post on your blog commenting on antisemitic attacks in Scotland, physical attacks on Jews and the recent CST figures on racial attacks on Jews in Britain.(1)

    Please do that and then there would be no possibility of anyone misinterpreting your views.

    A simple post on your blog dealing with racial attacks on Jews in Scotland, that would be more than sufficient.

    —-

    1: see http://www.thecst.org.uk/index.cfm?content=7&Menu=7

  34. Caro Says:

    OH MY GOD (and I mean that sincerely), if this Terry Kelly person is typical of Scottish politicians you folks are really in trouble. I thought we had some stupid American politicos, but this guy takes the cake. WHAT AN IDIOT.

    He doesn’t understand plain English, and he seems to be unable to comprehend any even mildly complicated thought. Too many deep friend Mars bars, I suppose. And too much warm beer. (Yuck.)

    At first I thought he was a common-or-garden anti-Semite but I have changed my mind. He obviously hates Jews, of course, but he is too stupid to understand why. It is not so much that he is pro-Hamas, he is such an idiot that he doesn’t really understand what they are. Somewhere along his path he discovered the word “Zionist,” and, upon realizing that Jews are Zionists he now brandishes a word which he doesn’t understand with the finesse and subtlety of a caveman wielding a club.

    Patricia, your patience with this moron is admirable. In a battle of wits of course, he is only half-armed, but still, I admire your willingness to try to get through the very, very thick skull of this imbecile.

    • efrafandays Says:

      I’m acting as Master of Ceremonies here, so am grateful to others for keeping it going.

      Sadly, I do think he’s representative of domestic Scottish politicians… especially at local council or trade union level. Not necessarily on Israel, but on the sectarian mindset which I’ve outline above.

      I’ll defend again Terry, as an individual, from accusations of antisemitism. I just think he’s a moron. Yet, his obvious insensitivity to anti-Jewish racism makes it a moot point. Trust me, Jews (normal human beings, for that matter) do not view the early 1940s as a period to look back in fondness on.

      I suspect his support for Hamas is similar to what drives ‘normal’ people to play Grand Theft Auto – a vicarious desire for destroying cities.

      He has said that he’d assist any Jewish constituent who came with complaints of being taunted with Hezbollah symbols, but as far as I can see, has failed to condemn the Garnethill synagogue vandalism. Heck, even Osama Saeed – a man whose political position I have deep disagreements with – managed to do so (even if he attached an implicitly antisemitic argument that Jewish civic representatives should be obliged to take a position on Israeli acts).

      I’ll repeat, if he condemns it, he will be condemning the use of Hezbollah symbols, which antisemites such as John Wight as well as his comrades in the Scottish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign such as Mick Napier may object to.

  35. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 25/02/2010 at 22:22 | Reply

    There is nothing new here yet again who are you trying to convince me or yourself; you can try every smear and lie you like the fact remains that you and this blog lied about me because I am opponent of Israel you tried to brand me as anti Semitic which is your response to everyone who opposes Israel and that is an insult not only to me but to Jews everywhere.

    Your position does not change despite all the insulting rhetoric you support an apartheid state which carries out war crimes.

  36. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 26/02/2010 at 06:35 | Reply
    1. “I thought we had some stupid American politicos”

    Do you mean Reagan, Ford: Bush; possibly Palin in the biggest political job in the world?

    So you reckon I’m a Jew hater and an anti Semite? Is that really all you people have as an argument? Is there nothing else?
    I follow the Middle East conflict closely and have done for a long time starting with the Black September plane attacks back in the sixties so your criticism seems a little misplaced. It might help you to understand that I follow the American debate closely as well and my sympathies are 100% with Professors Chomsky, Finkelstein and the late great Howard Zinn.

    Still; I now have an American Zionist calling me a moron; I could hardly feel more vindicated. I know that standards have slipped rather badly in the USA but calling people morons and accusing them of being thick is not the way to behave; it’s not how to conduct a debate. Always glad to help.

  37. Patricia Says:

    I haven’t accused you of antisemitism. All I’ve done is point out that an organisation you support is antisemitic and expressed curiousity as to why you support them given their antisemitism. It’s not my fault that you can’t answer simple questions.

    Like I say I don’t think you’re an antisemite. I think you’re an attention seeker – you’d cut your foot off if you thought it would get people talking about you. You’re just exploiting the Palestinian people to quench your thirst for attention and cheap publicity.

    As I’ve already said I don’t mind you being an opponent of Israel at all. I wholeheartedly encourage it. Are you really so arrogant that you believe Israel will come crashing down because some two bit councillor abuses people on the internet? That says more about your vanity than anything else.

    Out of interest would your behaviour here reflect how you normally deal with your constituents?

  38. Patricia Says:

    ” “calling people morons and accusing them of being thick is not the way to behave; it’s not how to conduct a debate. Always glad to help.”

    Ha! That is the funniest thing you’ve ever said. You wouldn’t have the first clue how to conduct a debate. Do you actually read the abusive bile you write? Priceless.

  39. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says: 25/02/2010 at 23:27 | Reply

    1. I believe you have sent this to my blog and I have answered it there.
    2. Would you ask the local Rabbi of the vandalised Synagogue if he condemned these attacks?

  40. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 26/02/2010 at 14:30 | Reply

    I have a policy of not engaging in personal insults with the proviso that if anyone indulges in such tactics I will respond and defend myself; I am not a shrinking violet and that is what has happened here this was started by you and your site read back and see what I mean.

    Following the smears and lies you wrote about me I feel that you people have no concept of standards and I therefore treat you accordingly.

  41. modernity Says:

    Thanks Mr. Kelly this is your reply:

    ” Cllr Terry Kelly said…
    (ModernityBlog) 25/02/10

    I’m sorry if you are genuine but I am not prepared to respond to such questions, they are bogus and designed to shift the argument away from Israel and brand me as anti Semitic and I am not going to let him away with it.

    My views have been made clear on my blog and I will continue to attack Israel; support Palestine and refute the smears and lies of these Zionist hooligans; I regard such questions as insulting.”

  42. modernity Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    So what you’re saying is you can’t express any sympathy with Jews attacked in Britain, which incidentally, could be separated if you so choose from any issue in the Middle East.

    I find that extraordinary, but it is your view and you’ve stated clearly.

  43. Patricia Says:

    I don’t think anyone who’s read your own blog or what you’ve written here will be fooled by your sudden protestation that you have a policy of not indulging in personal abuse. A quick google search will reveal blog after blog stretching back over years expressing astonishment at you habit of abusing anyone who disagrees with you. You’re fooling no one.

    Even back in 2007 you were being described as “the greatest argument against representitive democracy” for your abusive and malicious behaviour online.

    http://doctorvee.co.uk/2007/02/01/the-greatest-argument-against-representative-democracy/

    FYI I haven’t written anything on my blog regarding your views on Israel.So your assertion that this was started by me and my site is nonsense. I’m a visitor to this blog the same as you are. Not I would add that the writer of this blog has done anything wrong. He has been more than fair to you and given you every opportunity to clarify your views and clear this mess up once and for all. That you have used the opportunity given to you to make abusive and dishonest remarks has been entirely your own choice.

    This whole row had begun to die down weeks ago and was well on the way to fading from memory as bloggers turned their attention to more important matters. You chose to revive the issue. Not me. Not the writer of this blog or anyone else.

  44. Terry Kelly Says:

    If you would show a bit more diligence and intellectual rigour instaed of regurgitating the same nonsense you would note that I have stated my policy many many times on my own blog; if you want a proper debate then fine if you want to tell lies and spread smears then all bets are off and I will treat you with the contempt you deserve.

    This blog is soley responsible for these exchanges I did not know it existed until I was told that someone was attacking me for being anti Semitic and I responded just as I did with other blogs.

  45. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernity Says: 26/02/2010 at 14:51 | Reply

    “So what you’re saying is you can’t express any sympathy with Jews attacked in Britain”

    No; I’m saying that I’m not going to allow the questioner to create this diversion; I am not going to comment because I don’t have to I’m confident that people know where I stand and I have nothing to be ashamed of.

    If you asked a Rabbi the same question he would regard it like me as an insult.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      RUBBISH! My next door neighbour, and drinking buddy, is a Rabbi, and he, along with his collegues, are quite regularly sending sympathy messages and offers of help to victims of your nazi bed fellows.

      And have you nothing better to do with your time than write endless drivel, trying to defend the indefenssable?

  46. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    So one of your arguments is that:

    ” If you asked a Rabbi the same question he would regard it like me as an insult.”

    But fairly obviously you’re not a Rabbi or anywhere close, so it is a non-argument.

  47. Patricia Says:

    The person who told you that the writer of this blog had called you an antisemite wasn’t being entirely straight with you because he’s clearly stated that he doesn’t think that is the case.

    He simply took offence at some questionable comments that you made and wrote about it as he is perfectly entitled to do. You yourself have admitted that the remarks were clumsily phrased. Yet instead of clarifying your position and ressuring people you’ve chosen to abuse people who took genuine offence.

    Nobody is objecting to valid criticism of Israel. Like any conflict it’s bound to arouse strong feelings and lead to people expressing different opinions. What does concern people is that this issue is being used by some as a cover for their own antisemitism and that elements of the pro-Palestinan movement are not doing enough to condemn this and distance themselves from such objectionable views.

  48. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says:26/02/2010 at 15:25 | Reply
    I was told that this site was portraying me as an anti Semite and Jew hater which is correct.

    “Yet instead of clarifying your position”
    More blatant lies; you are a disgrace; I have clarified my position ad nauseam.

    Your last para. sees you jumbling words around and saying the same thing; if you condemn Israel you are an anti Semite, it;s a fig leaf which withered a long time ago; you are exposed as liars.

  49. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says: 26/02/2010 at 15:16 | Reply

    My position which is well known; is similar to that of the Rabbi’s it is therefore not an honest question which I refuse to dignify with a response.

  50. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    So another one of your arguments is that:

    “it is therefore not an honest question”

    A curious reply, politicians are asked questions everyday and frequently about the nature of racism in British society, most of them can manage an answer.

    It is certainly peculiar that a British politician, albeit a minor one, is incapable of articulating his views clearly on violent racism against Jews in Britain.

    It is a curious anomaly, most politicians would be only too happy to clarify their position on those awful attacks.

    Equally, most politicians wouldn’t put themselves on the same level as rabbis, as they, and you Councillor Kelly have nothing to do with the Jewish community in Britain.

    You, Councillor Kelly, can’t even be troubled to comment on anti-Jewish violence in Britain, most rabbis would do that and condemn it without a moment’s pause, but not you Councillor Kelly, as I said, so it is a non-argument.

  51. Patricia Says:

    No lies from me here. You have not once during this discussion made any attempt to clarify your position. Instead you’ve made defamatory and abusive comments towards everyone here for asking perfectly reasonable questions. You’re presence here is nothing more than attempt to bully someone who’s criticised you.

  52. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 26/02/2010 at 17:30 | Reply

    I have made my position perfectly clear from the start; you choose to lie about it so what else can I do.

    “perfectly reasonable questions”

    The question we are referring to is not a reasonable question it is a diversion which I am not prepared to allow.

    • efrafandays Says:

      Terry, given that you endorse Nazi-sourced falsified quotations of Ben Gurion, your judgment on the matter can most certainly be questioned.

  53. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says: 26/02/2010 at 16:45 | Reply

    “most of them can manage an answer”

    Are you actually suggesting that I can’t manage an answer? Refusing to answer is not the same thing as being unable to answer. Maybe you are having difficulty understanding the language.

    “British politician, albeit a minor one, is incapable of articulating his views”

    I have just explained this do you realise you are repeating yourself?

    “Equally, most politicians wouldn’t put themselves on the same level as rabbis”

    Neither would I and I didn’t ; you really are having difficulty understanding aren’t you? or is this deliberate I wonder.

    “You, Councillor Kelly, can’t even be troubled to comment on anti-Jewish violence in Britain”

    You clearly haven’t done your home work I have commented many times on anti Jewish violence and anti Semitism before but on this occasion I refuse to play this blog’s squalid game.

    Why don’t you get it off your chest; I’m anti Israel therefore in the twisted logic that sustains you people I have to be anti Semitic you are no better than the repugnant followers of Senator Joe McCarthy.

  54. Terry Kelly Says:

    o efrafandays Says: 26/02/2010 at 21:01 | Reply

    Ben Gurion was a blood drenched Zionist terrorist thug who stated that he would never make peace with Israel if he were a Palestinian.

    As you are a brainwashed Zionist thug and an apologist for war crimes I will reserve the right to question your judgement.

  55. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly, you wrote:

    “You clearly haven’t done your home work I have commented many times on anti Jewish violence and anti Semitism before but on this occasion I refuse to play this blog’s squalid game.”

    Have you?

    Please could you provide any links to your comments or statements on violence against Jews.

  56. Patricia Says:

    Councillor,
    Are all zionists thugs in your opinion? If so can you supply evidence to back up this assertion. Also a source for your comments on Ben Gurion would be helpful.

  57. Caro Says:

    Terry, honey, try to follow this: we don’t care if you criticize Israel. We understand that you are far too stupid to understand complicated issues so that you are reduced to being a sloganeer. You simply repeat what you hear more intelligent people say. As you listen and follow anti-Semites you come off sounding like one, it is quite clear. You don’t like Jews much, but I suspect that is because we are all smarter and quicker than you, and you are envious and feel angry because of it.

    That you refuse to condemn violence against British Jews only proves that you have no honor and no principles, but then, we all knew that.

    You are a blustery, inadequate little man (don’t folks up your way say, “a wee mannie?”) and you try to bully everyone around you to make up for not having their respect. Without knowing anything about your private life, and frankly, not caring enough to look it up, my guess is that you have been divorced once or twice and cannot keep a girlfriend, unless you somehow managed to luck into finding a true masochist. Perhaps your character is not the only thing small about you.

    Oh, and just for the record, I voted for Obama in 2008, as did every member of my family. I wouldn’t vote for Palin for dogcatcher, although I would vote for her before I would vote for you.

  58. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 27/02/2010 at 05:23 | Reply

    Thank you for those well balanced comments; you are believe it or not reasonably articulate for a Zionist hoodlum; not that the standards are difficult to reach, but; a reasonable attempt; particularly for an American Zionist hoodlum.

  59. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 27/02/2010 at 00:14 | Reply

    You wan’t my opinion on Zionists? You want me to give you evidence? You want me to provide sources?
    That would be like a proper debate and you are a bunch of liars and crooks you will do and say anything to smear people and you now pretend that you are in some way civilized; it’s a bit late for that is it not?

  60. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says: 26/02/2010 at 23:31 | Reply

    Read my past blog articles.

  61. Patricia Says:

    Councillor,
    Why not just own up and admit you don’t have the evidence. All you’ve done on this page is name call and abuse people. I can only assume this is because you actually know very little about the subject at hand and are trying to conceal this by treating us all to a stream of abuse.

    I will confess to feeling slightly alarmed at the way your rage gets you into such a state that you cannot deal with a simple exchange of views. I wonder if this discussion were taking place face to face whether you would have used or threatened violence against the people here. The language used here does point to a man with difficulty controlling his temper. Perhaps you hope that people will eventually become too frightened and intimidated to contradict what you say. Do you not think you’re getting a wee bit long in the tooth for the schoolyard bully act?

    Out of interest why do you think American zionists are hoodlums and less articulate than anyone else? Can we add Americans to the long list of people you harbour an alarming degree of hated for?

  62. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 27/02/2010 at 18:41 | Reply

    You are making the mistake of thinking that after everything you lying low life creeps have said about me that I will get involved in a debate with you about Zionism; Israel; Palestine etc. that is not why I am here; you would love to get me to legitimise you by arguing with you.
    I am on this site to refute your vile campaign to portray me as an anti Semite and a Jew Hater and that is what I intend to do; I would no more try to reason with thugs and liars like you people than I would a brick wall.

  63. Patricia Says:

    Yawn. No one here has said you’re an antisemite. You’re wide of the mark if you think anyone is involved in a campaign against you. Who’d bother? Let me spell out what’s happened here because your monstrous ego is clearly clouding your judgement. You write a publicly available blog, the writer of this blog read it, disagreed with something you said and wrote an article about it. It happens all the time to all sorts of bloggers and despite the odd spat most bloggers manage to agree to disagree without throwing tantrums that would shame a three year old as you have done here.

    Do you really imagine we all meet once a week down the Zionist club and concoct evil plans to discredit you? There are plenty web forums for people who believe in zionist conspiracies -you might find you’d get a friendlier reception there. Though I’d imagine your claims that a campaign is being waged against you by one blog will struggle to compete with their claims that zionists are responsible for everything from the rise of Hitler to the London tube bombings. Still it’s worth a shot and if they like you, you could end up a rival to David Icke!

    Someone here asked whether you condemn antisemitic attacks and asked for evidence of you having done so in the past. Since you are too consumed by rage to properly explain your position, allow me to supply the evidence.

    http://councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com/2009/11/sickness-of-militarism.html

    Here we have you to your credit condemning a particularly nasty display of antisemitism at a Remembrance Day parade. This then begs the question why won’t you condemn the attack on the synagogue or the dramatic rise in antisemitic incidents in Scotland?

    The answer is quite clear. The antisemitic incident that you publicly condemn is just plain old fashioned hating Jews because they are Jews. Had the Scouts only had the wit to throw in a reference or two to the ‘apartheid state’ or ‘blood drenched gangsters’, there would not have been a peep out of you. Perhaps a better question for Modernity Blog to have asked you would have been, do you also condemn antisemitic attacks when the perpetrators claim to be motivated by opposition to Israel?

    I expect privately you believe that this kind of thing is wrong even when directed against Israel but you are so politically unsophisticated you think that coming out and condemning anything that is directed against Israel is akin to expressing support for Israel. Your philosophy of ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ has led to to a position where you are willing to turn a blind eye to all manner of repulsive and wicked acts by Hamas and by people in this country for whom the conflict has been a gift in providing a cover for their own antisemitism. What did the poor people of Palestine ever do to deserve you as a ‘friend’? God help them.

    So to return to your ridiculous allegation of a there being a campaign against you led by the people who have written here. No there isn’t! I can’t speak for anyone else here but I regard you with a mixture of pity and amusement. Amusement because you really are one of life’s great unconcious comedians -your rants and the language you use are utterly hysterical. You’re like David Brent with PMT. That said I do feel a degree of pity for you, it cannot be easy going through life with such a hair trigger temper and so consumed with hatred.

  64. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    In response to a fairly simple question,

    Please could you provide any links to your comments or statements on violence against Jews.

    you wrote:

    “Read my past blog articles.”

    Which effectively means, no, you don’t have any links, pity.

  65. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says:

    27/02/2010 at 21:07 | Reply

    “the writer of this blog read it, disagreed with something you said and wrote an article about it”

    Another deception; the writer in question chose to lie and smear me.
    “most bloggers manage to agree to disagree without throwing tantrums”

    So most bloggers don’t mind being branded as anti Semites and Jew haters; are you sure about that; your whole life is a lie isn’t it.
    “why won’t you condemn the attack on the synagogue”

    If you know I have written condemning anti Semitism why do you find it necessary to ask me such a repugnant question?

    The rest of your post is just the same recurring use of red herrings to camouflage the fact that you will attack anyone who opposes Israel and you will say and do anything to that end no matter how sordid or hateful that is. Whatever you write; no matter what lies you tell and vile accusations you make you can’t hide what you are; that is a supporter of war crimes and the loathsome apartheid state of Israel.

  66. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says: 27/02/2010 at 22:14 | Reply

    “Which effectively means, no, you don’t have any links, pity”

    No; it means “read my past Blog articles” I’ll make it easier for you; read Patricia’s comment of 27/02/10 posted at 21:07.

  67. Patricia Says:

    As I have repeatedly pointed out, I have no problem whatsoever condemning Israeli human rights abuses. I have also said more than once on this thread that I support a two state solution. Depending on which poll you believe, between 35% and 74% of Palestinians also support a two state settlement.

    Are you honestly trying to assert that a significant percentage of the Palestinian people are liars, criminals, blood soaked gangsters,zionists/zionist thugs and apologists for Israeli human rights abuses?

    You say that I will attack anyone who criticises Israel. Why don’t you back that statement up? Name three people who I have attacked for criticising Israel?

  68. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 28/02/2010 at 16:52 | Reply

    You joined the writer of this blog in depicting me as an anti Semite and a Jew hater; it was very evident from the outset that there was nothing which I could say which would change that absolutely nothing. Since then you have been insulting my intelligence by trying to suggest that you are something which you are not i.e. reasonable and decent.
    I know perfectly well where you and the rest of you are coming from; you can’t be accused of subtlety, when something looks like a rat; smells like a rat and sounds like a rat it’s usually a rat.

  69. modernityblog Says:

    Councillor Kelly,

    I asked you straightforward questions on your views on racist violence against Jews.

    I didn’t receive a straightforward answer.

    I’ll let other readers make up their own minds, but I am a little bit disappointed.

    Still you are a politician and I suppose we should make allowances :)

  70. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernityblog Says:
    28/02/2010 at 20:54 | Reply
    You are beginning to sound disingenuous I will tell you again; look at my past blog articles; Patricia who joins in the attacks on me on this blog concedes in her post which I told you to check that she has read one of my posts which condemns violence against Jews and it’s not the only post; go and check.

  71. Patricia Says:

    Once again I remind you that no one here has accused you of antisemitism. I am aware that other blogs have but that’s not something I can exercise any influence over.

    What you have been accused of is going against your own conscience and turning a blind eye to antisemitic elements in the pro-Palestinian movement out of a misguided sense of solidarity with Israel’s enemies and sloppy research regarding the boycott or hypocriscy.

    You can call me all the names you want. My opinions are honestly held. You may think they’re loathsome or evidence that I’m in some way evil. I have neither the time, inclination or energy to defend my myself against your ad hom attacks.

    I will ask you to do one thing and to demonstate that I’m being genuine and not trying to catch you out I will not mention it again or expect any response from you. Let me reiterate that I am not going to ask your for the answers to these questions or make hay with your choice not to answer them.

    All I am asking you to do is look at this selection of quotes left by various people on The Guardian website. Pay particular attention to the one which goes as follows;

    “I’m glad to hear you admit, jewish people can be as corrupt and racist as anyone else. Rare to hear. Normally, it’s all about hearing about how anti-semitic everything/ everyone is.

    The fact is:

    – a community that talks the most about the oppression, discrimination and the holocaust has the biggest moral duty to prevent the suffering of other people (like the palestinians) or speak out when it happens. Like in Israel for example.

    – a community routinely pilloried for the acts of its most corrupt members, owes it to itself to admit it and actually cast out those who bring the rest of them into disrepute. Especially, since they are the ones who carry the can for it.

    The fact that the Jewish community has said nothing in respect of the treatment of the Palestinians in Israel or people like Bernie Madoff speaks volumes. And it is no different to the muslim community leaders who said nothing after 9/11 other than to preach “understanding for why it happened”.

    At the end of the day, if they won’t do the right thing and condemn the immoral among them publicly, then their legacy is the community’s legacy. End of story.”

    http://cifwatch.com/2010/02/27/that-but-word/

    Bear in mind I don’t want answers to these questions. I’m just asking you to reflect whether or not you think this kind of thing is acceptable in the pro-Palestine movement. Please read the other antisemitic comments highlighted – do you really think that these comments are beneficial to the entirely legitimate political concerns of the Palestinian people and their supporters? Do you think the kind of person who considers Madoff a typical Jew has any place in your movement? Similarly do you think the people who attack Jews because of Israeli actions have any place in your movement?

    I neither want nor expect answers to these questions. All I ask is that you read the stuff I’ve linked to and make up your own mind.

  72. Caro Says:

    I just came by today to see if Terry (some of my best friends are Jewish) Kelly would call me a Zionist hoodlum and thug again. It is the most exciting thing to happen to this middle-aged married mother who knits for charity in a long time.

    Terry, if you really believe that you are not anti-Semitic, then you need to keep better company, because a lot of your friends and associates are, and a man is known by the company he keeps.

    I am a patriotic American, and a proud Zionist, and although those are two things which you cannot abide, that is your problem, not mine. I don’t spend my time obsessing about you, but my goodness, you spend a lot of time obsessing about us.

  73. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 01/03/2010 at 04:48 | Reply

    “(some of my best friends are Jewish)”

    Yes this is true but; some of my worst enemies are Jewish as well.

    “this middle-aged married mother who knits for charity in a long time”

    Are you kind to children and animals as well?

    “I am a patriotic American, and a proud Zionist”

    I regard this as impossible.

  74. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 01/03/2010 at 00:40 | Reply

    I have told you already; I am not going to debate with you; your comments on this blog have made that impossible it would be a waste of time; you have already gone too far.

    No amount of wriggling around and no amount of weasel words can change what you are and what this site is about; you are liars and thugs who undermine my respect for humanity. I would much rather never have come across you I feel tainted communicating with people like you but: I’m not prepared to let you away with such filth and lies.

  75. modernity Says:

    Yeah Caro,

    Councillor Kelly is a strange one, but I would like to assure North Americans that he is, in British term at least, in a very small minority.

    Most Brits don’t share Councillor Kelly’s attitude nor his inability to condemn racist violence against Jews.

    I would recommend readers take a look at three anti-racist campaigns in Britain, Engage, Searchlight and the CST (see the above links)

    http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/

    http://engageonline.wordpress.com/

    As for these exchanges, I would recommend reading Councillor Kelly’s blog with the aid of Google and you will see that invariably he accuses his interlocutor’s of bad faith the moment they question him, or want clarification of his political views.

    Such exchanges are common, almost obligatory on his own blog.

    It seemed rather pointless, as clearly Councillor Kelly is incapable of articulating his own views on anti-Jewish racism and as such is beyond the pale of civilised discussion, as far as I am concerned.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      It would indeed be interesting to show his constituents this thread, and see if THEY would like to offer an opinion on him at the next polls.

      That is, of course, if he actualy IS a councillor.

      • efrafandays Says:

        It also would be interesting to show the Scottish Conservatives this thread. They’re giving the local MP a run for his money – Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary.

  76. modernity Says:

    Councillor Kelly most certainly is a Councillor, as the official Council web site shows:

    http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwcm/publishing.nsf/Content/cs-pmcd-councillor-terry-kelly

    There have been a number of complaints against him over the years, this is just one from 2004:

    http://www.standardscommissionscotland.org.uk/04_11_18pr.html

    It may well be that he is a good ward councillor and competent within that realm, however, I feel that his energies would be better spent assisting the residents of Paisley rather than commenting on other matters in such an inflammatory fashion as is his want.

  77. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernity 01/03/2010 at 15:20 | Reply

    Absolutely; I’ve been elected 3 times; it must be frustrating for you; had I been an American they would have been able to smear me out of business wouldn’t they.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      I do not know how. You spend most of your time defending the indefensable on blogg sites such as this. How your ward even know who you are astounds me.

      Bye the way, I have linked this to four German political webs/Bloggs here. Just to show what two faced nazis British politicians really ARE.

  78. Terry Kelly Says:

     efrafandays Says: 01/03/2010 at 15:28

    I was wondering how long it would take to get to this point; I suppose this means that you have given up trying to beat me or intimidate me; it vindicates my assessment of you people “do and say anything no matter how low and dishonest” Joe McCarthy would have been proud of you.

    “let’s see what low down filth we can use on this guy; we clearly aint beating him and he shows no signs of going away” right?

  79. Terry Kelly Says:

    Furor Teutonicus Says: 01/03/2010 at 14:40 | Reply

    This is what happens to you when you become a fanatical swivel headed supporter of Zionism you end up talking exclusively to yourselves.

    Let’s try this for a headline “ brave local councillor stands up to American Zionist bullies” they won’t count my votes they will have to weigh them; this might be a shock to you but; Lying Zionist supporters of Israel’s crimes are not as popular here as they appear to be on whatever planet you live on.

  80. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernity Says: 01/03/2010 at 13:35 | Reply

    “he is, in British term at least, in a very small minority”

    No he certainly is not if you actually took the time to talk to people other than the incestuous crowd at this blog you would know that.

    “his inability to condemn racist violence against Jews”

    This is a blatant vile lie and what I have come to expect from you people.

    “he accuses his interlocutor’s of bad faith the moment they question him”

    Unlike you of course and the others on this blog of where everyone is a model of decency and fair play; you are beyond parody.

    “Councillor Kelly is incapable of articulating his own views on anti-Jewish racism”

    I am perfectly capable of articulating my views on anti Jewish or indeed any other kind of racism; I choose not to share my views with American Zionist liars and thugs that’s all; people who defend war criminals; why should I dignify people like you by engaging with you; you are beneath contempt and quite incapable of telling the truth.

    Reading comments on this site has helped me to better understand the popularity of such abominations as Reagan; Ford; Bush; Nixon; Joe McCarthy; Fox news; Glen Beck; Bill O’Reilly ; Rush Limbaugh : the Birthers; the Tea Party mobs ; the Darwin deniers the Palin voters; the millions of racist Obama haters etc. it’s been quite informative, I show your comments to lots of people and watch their jaws drop.

  81. modernityblog Says:

    Please, readers, if anyone can point me towards Councillor Kelly condemning racist violence against Jews then I would be most grateful.

    Just post in a link.

    I searched his blog to no avail, and he provided no links to his supposed statements on this topic.

    It certainly is possible that he made some comments against racial violence against Jews, but as he hasn’t provided the evidence and his web site doesn’t seem to offer any then readers can make their own minds up.

    As far as I’m concerned anyone who can’t make a categoric condemnation of racial violence against Jews is beyond the pale, and not worth discussing anything with.

    PS: Councillor Kelly, I’m not interested to engage you. I gave you a fair chance to explain your views on this topic, you didn’t, that was your choice.

    And now it is my choice to ignore you, any comments made will be **about** you, not to you.

  82. Caro Says:

    Oh my, I read the reprimand that Kelly was given, how embarrassing! I suppose the Zionists got to Kelly’s superiors and forced them to condemn his behavior, as you know, the Israelis really care about every little wannabe tinpot dictator in Scotland.

    Originally I had thought he was something important, but it seems from reading that he is the equivalent of a small-town American alderperson, is that right? He is responsible for street-cleaning and the like?

    As for being elected, someone whom Kelly greatly resembles, the late Senator Joe McCarthy was also elected, so I am not sure that this is the best talking point for him.

  83. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernityblog Says: 01/03/2010 at 17:25 | Reply

    Dear readers I appeal to you in the name of truth to ignore the smears being written about me by the person who hides behind the name ‘modernityblog’ so confident is he of his position that he makes foul accusations against me from a hiding place. To settle this business about whether I am anti Semitic or a Jew hater I invite you to Google Cllr. Terry. Kelly this will take you to my blog site where you can read my posts and; more importantly you can read my previous posts and access all the comments sent to me and my replies.

    Let me remind you of the core of this coward’s argument; after being called these vile things by the author of the blog I responded to the abuse from him; he then asked me if I condoned or condemned an attack on a certain Synagogue; I replied that his question was an insult and beneath contempt. He then ran an article headed “Councillor refuses to condemn attack on Synagogue” these are the values that these people are operating at; please see for yourself and make up your own minds.

    What is going on here is quite simple they have been reading my blog and discovered something which is no secret; I am strongly opposed to the State of Israel and very sympathetic to the Palestinians. They decided to target me in the only way they know how; that is by screeching anti Semite and Jew hater at me; this is not true, read my blog and see.

    No matter how much you support the State of Israel which you are entitled to do, allowing people like these to speak and act on Israel’s behalf and behave like this is a big mistake and it is one of the reasons that support is ebbing away from Israel. There are people who wrongly think that being Jewish equates with being Israeli and others; more sinister who want people to believe this; they are more than happy to encourage anti Semitism and this gang of mendacious scoundrels who write this blog and comment on it make the situation worse; don’t encourage them; read it; read my blog and think for yourselves.

  84. Terry Kelly Says:

    Caro Says: 01/03/2010 at 19:47 | Reply

    I wouldn’t care if there was only one Zionist in the world I would be opposed to that person; whatever my position in life whether I was important or not; your reference to my position is typically American “people responsible for menial work don’t have opinions” it’s the American way right?

    I was suspended for taking issue with a member of the public who was shouting vile abuse at my daughter at a council meeting; and I would do it again; what would you do; would a Zionist care about something like that? McCarthy was one of history’s great liars and user of smears he would have fitted in with you Zionists easily.

  85. modernity Says:

    Caro,

    I doubt Councillor Kelly has the power of a small American town Alderman, and probably not even any control over the collection of rubbish.

    I do find it remarkable that apparently Councillor Kelly has been involved in politics for 40 plus years and yet suggests he feels “tainted communicating with people like you “

    Scottish politics can have a certain rough-and-tumble and professional Counsellors, like Mr. Kelly, are often the last to ever be intimidated by anyone. They tend to develop a thickness of skin, which would put a rhino to shame.

    However, I would suggest that people view his blog, you will see the same repetitious comments, the same mumblings about “Zionists”, “smears” and “lies”, etc.

    It isn’t very edifying, but I think his attitude is fairly clear even from the small exchange above.

    Councillor Kelly could have cleared up his views concerning racial attacks on Jews in a moment, but instead he chose to expend an inordinate amounts of energy attacking people, dodging the questions and conspicuously arguing in bad faith.

    I would suspect that his venting against Israelis is some form of pressure valve, a release from other worries or tensions he has in his life. Israelis are convenient scapegoats, but all in all it is a pity that he couldn’t bring himself to condemn racial violence against Jews in an unequivocal fashion.

    It’s not exactly that he is shy about his other views, in fact, as a politician I doubt you could shut him up.

    So his reluctance on the topic of racial violence against Jews is all the more surprising.

  86. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernity Says:

    01/03/2010 at 21:14 | Reply

    Have you seen the movie “Groundhog Day”?

  87. Caro Says:

    Modernity,

    Does he have any real views? As far as I can tell he seems to do a lot of whining, complaining, and the shouting of slogans, but from the little I have read he doesn’t seem to have any real independence of thought, or any careful consideration of any issue.

    Goodness knows that we have had our share of political nonentities in the United States, including some of our presidents, but I cannot imagine anyone who behaves as dear Terry behaves getting anywhere in American politics, at least these days. A few shots of him having a temper tantrum on Youtube would put paid to his career.

    OTOH, I am thinking about getting some cards made up with my name and the underscript, “Zionist Hoodlum and Thug.” And maybe a pair of crossed knitting needles with Z on the top instead of caps. I think people would get a real kick out of it.

  88. modernityblog Says:

    Caro,

    I suspect Councillor Kelly is trying to carve out some niche market ? Who knows ?

    Politics is littered with cranks, malcontents and the slow witted.

    Granted Councillor Kelly is no Traficant, but then again politics is often classified as show business for the ugly, more so if you’re a lowly paid councillor with a need/desire to vent at people.

    Losing your temper in Scotland wouldn’t count, but you are right Councillor Kelly should get his own YouTube channel, if only for entertainment’s sake.

    Councillor Kelly could rant for hours into the camera, about “Zionist thugs and liars”, “little blood soaked Zionist thug”, “Zionist lying thug”, “lying squalid Zionist thugs”, Zionist hooligans” etc

  89. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernityblog Says: 02/03/2010 at 00:43 | Reply

    “I suspect Councillor Kelly is trying to carve out some niche market “

    I came to this site because it was printing lies about me and portraying me as an anti Semite and a hater of Jews; you should try telling the truth just for once you never know you might find it liberating.

    “Politics is littered with cranks, malcontents and the slow witted”

    You can say that again; and when it comes to Zionist politics it goes downhill from there.

    “councillor with a need/desire to vent at people”

    Yes vent at people who lie about me and describe me as an anti Semitic Jew hater.

  90. Terry Kelly Says:

    Caro Says: 01/03/2010 at 22:27 | Reply

    “he doesn’t seem to have any real independence of thought”

    And this from an American Zionist; you couldn’t make it up could you?

    “I cannot imagine anyone who behaves as dear Terry behaves getting anywhere in American politics, at least these days”

    Do you have a TV have you heard of Fox? Does the name Sarah Palin mean anything to you? are you trying to reinforce the reputation that America has for being backward?

    Thank God all Americans are not like you lot; you bring shame on your great country.

  91. modernityblog Says:

    Caro,

    I think we can see Councillor Kelly’s modus operandi here.

    Councillor Kelly wants to provoke people, into insulting him, calling him names, and then he can play the victim.

    He can then say how horribly he was dealt with by the dreaded “Zionists”.

    As if, a few words on a computer screen would truly intimidate a councillor from Paisley, but this tactic has the additional benefit for him that it means he doesn’t have to discuss the issues.

    Instead it then becomes a personalised shouting match which suits him, because it avoids dealing with the complexities of these topics.

    It is clear from here and his blog that Councillor Kelly does like playing the victim and I think readers should not give him that option.

    I suspect much of his conduct can be explained away that simply, and I would not attribute to malice what can be explained away with stupidity, which seems most apt in his case, given the quality of his exchanges.

    There are many people who latch on to the conflicts in the Middle East, they are often like Ghouls feeding off of human conflict, storing up hatred but demonstrating no understanding of the issues or the people of the region.

    It is a political fad seen across Europe and elsewhere and when peace finally comes to the Middle East the selfsame people will show no interest.

  92. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernityblog Says: 02/03/2010 at 15:02 | Reply

    There is a rather large elephant in your room here; Cllr. Kelly did not seek this confrontation it was this blog site which did that.

    “it avoids dealing with the complexities of these topics”

    Another big elephant in the room here; invading people’s land; slaughtering their population; destroying their homes and farms; penning them in with an apartheid wall; denying them clean water and medicine; committing war crimes against them etc. etc. etc. might be “complex” to you but they are not to me and please God they never will be.

    “demonstrating no understanding of the issues or the people of the region”

    Only the Zionists understand the issues right: and only they have the solution; ratchet up the killing rate.

    “the dreaded “Zionists”

    You’ve got the wrong guy here; believe me I don’t ‘dread’ you at all; detest; loathe; despise; abhor and more but not dread.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      XX You’ve got the wrong guy here; believe me I don’t ‘dread’ you at all; detest; loathe; despise; abhor and more but not dread.XX

      GOTCHA!!

      I can not do it from here, although I HAVE drawn the attention of my police collegues in Britain to it. But if anyone wishes to take this pathetic piece of scum that attempts to put himself over as human, to court on it, that last sentence (Quoted) covers all the bases for the new descrimination laws in the U.K.

      Just something some of you may wish to ponder upon, and maybe fill in a few spare hours making an official complaint, as Kelly is obviously so fond of doing.

  93. Terry Kelly Says:

    Furor Teutonicus Says: 03/03/2010 at 07:03 | Reply

    “But if anyone wishes to take this pathetic piece of scum that attempts to put himself over as human”

    Hilarious; do Americans not do irony? are you really a cop? how hard is the test?

    • efrafandays Says:

      Americans do irony, brassy and steely.

    • Furor Teutonicus Says:

      How would I know what the Americans do or do not do?

      I am GERMAN you nazi piece of scum, and am a GERMAN copper.

      And when a GERMASN calls you nazi scu,m, believe me arsehole, WE know what we are talking about.

  94. Iain Gallagher Says:

    I am ashamed to admit that I have been an occasional visitor to Councillor Kelly’s blog over the years. For those of you who may not be as familiar with the west of Scotland as I and the unfortunate councillor are, I’d like to make the point that he is not representative of the majority of the population there.

    Terry is one of a small band of bigots that infest this area and have rather entrenched views about the world that have arisen from their sectarian roots. (See some of Kelly’s previous posts which can generally be summarised as “Ireland good, Britain bad”). Both sides of the sectarian divide are as bad as each other but fortunately are dwindling in numbers.

    I note that I am not the only one originally to think that Terry’s blog was a spoof set up by his political opponents. There are times when you read the semi-literate, ill-informed bile spewing forth from his blog and think that the other political parties in Renfrewshire must rub their hands in glee every time he lays a finger on his keyboard. That he is so lacking in self-awareness is testament to the longevity of his bigotted and bullying ramblings.

    He normally engages with the bear-baiting cybernats. I must admit that I’m not a fan of the SNP but even they regularly trounce him and reduce him to responding with the usual abuse and childish circular arguments. I fear that he realizes that he has bitten off more than he can chew at your site. Although I hope not, as the entertainment he provides (cruel though it may be) offers a pleasant diversion.

    Incidentally, as the good councillor usually suspects a Zionist/SNP/Rangers/Royalist/Military conspiracy I’d like to point out that I am a lapsed Church of Scotland, Labour-leaning, Partick Thistle supporter with no particularly strong opinions about the royal family.

  95. Patricia Says:

    Councillor,
    You came to this site because you noted it was run by a single author and thought he’d be easy to smear and intimidate. Had you really been concerned at being called an antisemite you’d have responded to this post

    http://cifwatch.com/2010/01/26/can-the-real-councillor-terry-kelly-please-stand-up/

    and this post

    http://cifwatch.com/2010/01/28/is-councillor-kellys-record-stuck/

    But here you are using your position to bully a blogger with honestly held opinions about something you’ve said. Not a first for you though is it?

    Still do thrill us all by explaining why you’re too scared to defend yourself on cifwatch because I am satan/a zionist/a thug/ a criminal etc etc.

  96. Patricia Says:

    Caro,
    I salute you as a fellow knitter.

  97. Caro Says:

    Patricia,

    Perhaps we took up knitting as part of our Elders’ inspired Zionist plot to undermine and smear Terry Kelly in his relentless quest to rid the world of truth, justice and the American way. After all everything a Zionist is or does is part of a plot, right? Even Zionist children, I mean, miniature Zionist hooligans, are part of it, as we have been told by the world renowned expert Terry Kelly.

  98. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Iain Gallagher Says: 03/03/2010 at 19:59 | Reply

    I don’t suppose the Americans will understand this but; this poison is no different from that spewed out by the Zionists on here and the cybernats here and elsewhere; clearly written by someone with his own agenda and not very subtle; still I believe you can reach Americans on here so subtle shmutble.

    How does Firhill manage to hold all you Partick Thistle supporters?

  99. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 04/03/2010 at 04:23 | Reply

    Is there an argument in there somewhere or is it an American version of English?

  100. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 03/03/2010 at 23:51 | Reply

    Caro,
    I salute you as a fellow knitter.

    Did you really mean to say ‘knitter’ ?

  101. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 03/03/2010 at 23:23 | Reply

    Patricia – I have already dealt with CiF and they are being investigated by the police.

    How does one intimidate someone who is anonymous? I am only interested in defending myself and as long as people like you and those on this site continue to spread lies and smears about me I will continue to do so and I will not be intimidated by you or any other Zionist liars; you write the poison that you do to intimidate me ( a public person) while you hide under your stone.

  102. modernity Says:

    Funny, but I suspect it was obvious to everyone, except Councillor Kelly that ‘Furor Teutonicus’ was German.

    1) Given the name
    2) Given the link associated with that name
    3) The syntax of the posts
    4) and the comment:

    “Bye the way, I have linked this to four German political webs/Bloggs here. ”

    All plain enough to anyone with the ability to read and think for a moment, except to Councillor Kelly.

  103. Patricia Says:

    Cllr,
    Cifwatch is not part of the Guardian website, to the best of my knowledge no one has posted on CIF Watch pretending to be you so why have you reported them to the police?

  104. Terry Kelly Says:

    CiF Watch, the Guardian site which is CiF, and another called Harry’s Place are being investigated by the police and possibly others.

    I was interviewd for nearly two hours by the police and they decided what to do not me.

  105. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. modernity Says: 04/03/2010 at 13:10 | Reply

    I take it this is an internal discussion; is it some kind of code?

  106. Patricia Says:

    You were interviewed for two hours! Well done. I was robbed at Christmas at all I got was a crime reference number.

  107. modernityblog Says:

    I suppose apart from playing the victim Councillor Kelly likes being the centre of attention, after all a Councillors job in Paisley must be a hard one and not very well-paid (~£16K).

    So being able to say that “international Zionists” are saying bad things about him must enliven his life no end.

    Peculiar, but there it is.

  108. Patricia Says:

    He does seem to be very fond of the attention. Still we should feel a degree of pity. He really is vain and foolish enough to believe that if people are attacking his opinions, it’s because he’s right. It’s notable that not once has anyone come to his aid in any of these debates about Israel or Palestine. Clearly he’s regarded as a liability even by his own camp. And who can blame them?

  109. Caro Says:

    Yes, Terry, she said knitting. You may not have heard of it, but it is an old and revered craft. Very popular among Zionists and other decent folk.

  110. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 06/03/2010 at 06:34 | Reply

    She said knitter but the punch line is lost if I have to explain it.

    “Zionists and other decent folk”

    Using the words Zionist and decent in the same sentence is a rather cavalier use of the English language; are you an American?

  111. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 05/03/2010 at 00:03 | Reply

    Still trying to convince yourself.

  112. Terry Kelly Says:

    modernityblog Says: 04/03/2010 at 22:13 | Reply

    I think you have missed your vocation; there is always work for comedy writers.

  113. Terry Kelly Says:

    Furor Teutonicus Says: 06/03/2010 at 15:30 | Reply

    Ah; the famous German sense of humour; I can’t compete with that.

  114. Patricia Says:

    Still trying to convince myself? Eh? I was robbed at Christmas -crimes do occur the police arent just there to investigate people who cross you on the internet you know. They have all sorts of important stuff to be doing like handing out crime reference numbers.

  115. Caro Says:

    This is probably in vain, but I am going to try this for the last time (I hope).

    Terry, when you label people whom you do not know as thugs, hoodlums, hooligans and the like simply because those people believe differently than you on a particular topic, then you deny them their humanity. Is is no longer possible in Scotland to disagree with someone without declaring them to be evil, or to dehumanize them?

    Since you think of Patricia and me as “Zionists,” you don’t see us as ordinary women who knit. You limit your own ability to move in the world because you see people in one dimension, not as real flesh-and-blood. It is your loss, really.

  116. Patricia Says:

    Caro,
    He’s got form for smearing his opponents in utterly dehumanising terms. A while back he and his daughter had comments left on his blog analysed by a psychologist, then published the results. The comments were not of a threatening nature and the person who left them had not given their consent to have them looked at by a mental health professional, let alone have the results published.

    He’s also made veiled implications that opponents are a danger to children and would not pass criminal record checks again not because of anything threatening they’ve said or done but because the have different political opinions.

    This isn’t just something he does online -though that is bad enough. He also spread false rumours about a socialist candidate who was running for Renfrewshire council.

    I can only assume that this is because as well as being a nasty piece of work he is too stupid and dogmatic to argue properly on policy.

    The hilarious thing is he can’t even see what he is. He denounced the comments left by his imposter as vile and antisemitic -yet compare and contrast them to his own on this thread. It’s much the same mindless abuse only with worse spelling -oh and the imposter does not fully support Hamas.

    http://www.hurryupharry.org/2010/01/22/ucu-lies-and-institutional-racism/

  117. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Patricia Says: 07/03/2010 at 00:16 | Reply

    I have no idea what you are trying to say here; do you struggle with literacy as well as truth?

  118. Terry Kelly Says:

    1. Caro Says: 07/03/2010 at 08:52 | Reply

    I do not label people that I do not know as thugs; hoodlums etc. I’m referring to you and the other Zionist liars on this site because that’s what you are. It is perfectly possible to argue with people in Scotland without calling them anything but not if they are Israel supporting Zionists who behave in the obnoxious way that the people on this site do.

    I have dealt with you and Patricia for long enough to know exactly what you are.

  119. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 07/03/2010 at 15:36 | Reply

    This vile garbage does not contain one single truth and as such is a good example of the twisted revolting Zionist mind set.

  120. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says 07/03/2010 at 15:36

    I just visited the site you linked to it’s the same Zionist blog which started this off. It would appear that I posted approx. 70 posts to this site between 23 and 24 january 2010, do you people actually believe this?

    I didn’t post a single one. Just how gullible are you people?

  121. Patricia Says:

    I was quite clear that the comments left on the other site were by an imposter. I was merely wondering why they upset you so when they are more or less an accurate reflection of your views and behaviour.

    You’ve got nothing but personal abuse to throw at your opponents. You don’t understand the basics of political debate -no wonder you shy away from the hustings.

  122. Patricia Says:

    btw -I can back up everything I’ve said about your past form. That’s why you can’t refute it. That’s why you’ve nothing but abuse to offer in response.

  123. Caro Says:

    Patricia,

    I give up. He is so stupid that he will probably interpret this as a “victory over the Zionist hoodlums,” but I have a real life and he has become too boring.

    I knit hats and scarves for the homeless, and afghans for Project Linus, and the time I spend arguing with him would be better used for the benefit of people who are in difficult circumstances through no fault of their own, unlike Terry Kelly who makes his own bad luck.

    He must be a charmer in real life, and I am so glad I don’t live anywhere near him. I don’t like a lot of the politicos around here but no one would dare to behave as he does and keep her/his job. Scottish people must be very, very patient. Where I live he would be laughed out of office.

  124. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 08/03/2010 at 00:27 | Reply

    “I can back up everything I’ve said about your past form”

    No you can’t you are a twisted liar.

  125. Terry Kelly Says:

    Patricia Says: 08/03/2010 at 00:26 | Reply

    “I was quite clear that the comments left on the other site were by an imposter”

    But you were quite happy to join in with the lies; that doesn’t surprise me.

    “they are more or less an accurate reflection of your views and behaviour”

    No they are not they are lies and you have admitted as much; not only are you a filthy liar you are also stupid.

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